2 4 Feet On The Ground

When you are driving your car, any car, regardless of AWD or 2WD, SUV or hatchback, there are only 4 tiny spots where your car actually touches the ground: your tires. And really, that contact patch is not particularly large. These are important pieces of real estate, as they determine your ability to go, stop, and turn. So I think we can all agree tires are important.

Tires are made of rubber, and rubber has a whole bunch of variables in it, one of which is intended temperature range. Like most things on our planet, they get harder when cold, softer when warm. So tires intended for driving on the racetrack have an optimal temperature that is pretty hot. I have track tires for my Audi, and I will attest to the fact that, when they are up to temp on the track, they are super grippy. When I get lazy and drive on them when it is 40 degrees and raining, they are hockey pucks, as they are far away from their intended temperature range. Snow tires, on the flip side, are really squishy and soft when it is 80 degrees and sunny out, not to mention they wear really fast in the summer.

But you might be saying to yourself 'ummm, but I have tires on my car and I haven't ever swapped them in the past!' and I am sure that is true. You have the magical all-season tire. These tires are less 'all' season and more 'no' season. They are a compromise between everything such that they are good enough in the snow, good enough in the summer, and last decently long. They aren't awesome at anything, but they get most everything done. And they are what most people drive on all year. But those of you living in places that have snow will agree, when you are trying to get your car out of a parking spot, that they are far from amazing in the snow. Enter the snow tire. They are designed for cold weather in that their temperature range is there. They sport thread deisgnes that are deeper and designed to operate in snow. They are siped to allow for better traction on ice and slippery stuff. They are crappy in the warm air.

I Have Fancy Electronics

Now you might be thinking 'but I have ABS and ESP and traction control so I'm good'. These systems all try to do magical things to keep your car doing what you want it to do. And they really can do some amazing things. The Audi ESP system (by Bosch, also on other cars, but I have an Audi so I'll talk to that) actually has an accelerometer in it and it compares your steering input to the actual direction of the car and can selectively apply the brake on one (or more) corners of the car to bring it back inline. It can even cut the throttle if it deems necessary. It is amazing. But it isn't between your tires and the ground. It can only do so much if   the tires have lost all traction and you're sliding across ice. Traction control, often times, operates under lower speed conditions and just applies the brakes on the driving wheels when you floor it and start spinning the tires. ABS just pumps the brakes to keep them from locking up when you stand on the pedal. These are all great systems, and I am glad to have them, but they can only do so much if you don't actually have any traction.

Heels In The Snow

The Tire Rack, a giant tire mailorder site, draws the analogy to footwear. If you are going to play basketball indoors on a smooth, clean, dry surface, you wear fancy gym shoes. And they are great. Then you go outside and it is cold and snowy and you find they are not as awesome. You wear boots. You wouldn't wear boots on the court either. Ask any fancy lady about wearing heels in the snow.

Now you might be saying 'ok, snowtires make sense, but I like easy and cheap. I have a feeling this is neither'. Well, you are somewhat correct. It isn't free. But awesomeness is rarely free. Lets do a little case study, as we bought my wife a 2008 Mazda5 a few years ago. We bought the car near the end of snow season, so we just drove the all season tires for the rest of the winter. Meanwhile, I started trolling craigslist for deals for my master plan. Now our Mazda5 came with 17 inch wheels. I did a little research, looking on Mazda forums, Mazda sites from other countries where they sold the same car, and I looked at the car itself and it was clear that 16 inch wheels would fit no problem. Sure, they don't look as cool as 17s, but I was ok with that. I secured a set of tires, a lightly used set that were sitting in my parent's garage, left over from a recently sold car that were a compatiable size. I only had 6 months to find a set of wheels.

For wheels, I would just monitor craigslist looking for a 16 in the correct bolt pattern, width, and offset. A few people on the mazda forums were using 16s from the Mazda Tribute, and I found a used set in the suburbs, $120 for the 4. Done. The Mazda5, like many newer cars, has tire pressure sensors on each wheel that alert the driver to a low tire. To avoid an annoying light for the entire season, I picked up a set of tire pressure monitors on ebay. I took the tires, wheels, and sensors over to a local tire shop and paid $100 to have them mounted and balanced and put on the car. The 17s with the all seasons I cleaned and put in storage in the garage. In the spring, I jack up the car and put the summers back on. Most tire shops will do this for a nominal fee. In fact, I sometimes just pay the money and save myself the labor. I do this dance twice a year, usually thanksgiving in the fall, and once it starts to stay warm in the spring. It is pretty easy.

Enough Already...

So it is obviously your call, and depends on your driving habits, needs, etc and how much snow you have to deal with, but it is really not that costly, and it might actually save you from an accident. But lets make a list just in case....

Negatives:

• A little more upfront money to acquire the wheels and tires, a little labor to mount an balance them
• Need a place to store the off season wheels

Positives:

• Better performance by using the correct tire for the conditions
• Sell them when you are done or with the car for $$
• Less death
• Much lower change of crashing or getting stuck in a parking spot etc.
• You'll feel like more of a 'car person'

I live in Chicago, which is a fairly dense city. But I am over 2 miles from downtown, so the tallest building around me is usually 3 stories, so the density is not that high. But with that kind of density, parking is clearly at a premium, and I understand this. I even pay for extra parking outside of the 2 spots that I have at my house and I am fine with that.

What I hate are people that double park. HATE it. I hate it when people do it on quiet little residential streets, but it isn't the end of the world, because there is room to get around and one is really not blocking the flow of traffic due largly in part to the fact that there aren't usually that many cars driving by. I hate it more when it is done on a major artery, so Ashland, a major north south street in the city that is 4 lanes plus a center lane.

The thing that often makes it more frustrating is it is almost ALWAYS done with an empty spot within a stones throw. Perhaps it is a no parking zone, or a hydrant, but it is a place you could park your car that is not impeding the flow of traffic. And really, if there is a fire, I am not sure double parking is really any better.

I can only assume that the people that do this are either too self centered to even consider parking a little further away as to not block traffic? Or perhaps, even worse, they considered it but just don't care? Let those people go around me? Or perhaps they just don't want to have to walk so far?

I mean how can one not feel like a giant asshole blocking all the traffic on a major road?

On my way to work today, which is what prompted this rant, I encountered an even more slefish situation. I am driving on a quiet residential street. I approach a stop sign, and none of the cars are moving. This is due to the fact that both other vehicles, a school bus and an SUV wanted to go east. However eastbound was blocked due to a double parked car that had managed to back up 4 other vehicles, one of which was another school bus. I, going north, thought oh, that is unforunate that one person is causing a problem for so many others and drive on.

I notice that traffic is not moving much northbound either, but due to the one way nature of the streets, north is looking better than east. I get up there and there is a couple loading a uhaul truck, of course double parked, blocking my northbound lane. On the southbound lane, there is a gentleman unloading a uhaul trailer, again double parked. These 2 geniuses managed to leave JUST enough room for 1 car to slalom between them. Meanwhile there are 4-5 cars in each direction that have essentially gridlocked themselves in due to the fact that southbound traffic is already stopped by the OTHER double parked car. Awesome.

To make this entire thing worse, there is a LOADING ZONE about 10 feet from where the uhaul truck is parked that is sitting empty. In fact people are using it to turn around.

So there are now about 15 cars all stopped, honking, with no place to go. Would you, as a perhaps NOT insanely selfish person, feel a little anxiety if it were you blocking the road? Would you perhaps feel a little emabarrased or al the very least uncomfortable? I would. I would feel really bad.

These 2 groups of people, who are evidently very important people, so much more important than the rest of us, but not so as important to be able to hire movers, have stopped unloading and loading their respective vehicles and are walking up to the cars and yelling at us.

Insane. Seriously. Insane.

If you missed the pre-purchase post or the couple month followup, check them out.

So do we still like it now that it is full of kids' toys and isn't as clean as it once was? Now that it no longer smells brand new?

Yes.

It is still the perfect car for our family of 4 in the city. One question in the comments was about life with 3 kids and some gear.... I would say it is not optimal. The 3rd row is really the trunk, you get one or the other. Sure, you can fold down one of the seats and split the difference, but really, it won't be enough. If you have a child small enough to live comfortably in the 3rd row, you are likely still carrying more gear for that child that one would like, so it becomes a space issue. With 3 kids, it could be a good second car, but as a primary car it might be tight.

That being said, I personally feel that people should purchase the smallest car they can deal with on a daily basis, and for the few road trips or big trips to home depot or what not, one should rent a car. If you are subscribing to that concept, then the Mazda5 might be a great car for a family of 5, especially if not all 5 are in the car all the time. For our family of 4, the Mazda5 could do a cross country road trip without issue. If we had 3 kids, I would just rent a minivan for the trip, put the miles on someone else's car, and not drive a giant mostly empty car for the remaining 350 days of the year, sucking down fuel and moving an extra 1,000 pounds around that you aren't using. (Assuming the Mazda5 weighs 3400, and the Honda Odyssey weights 4550).

The other question was about high speed stability and the lack of traction control/stability control. Short answer, in my humble opinion, the Mazda5 will out-handle a Honda Odyssey in high speed emergency maneuvers without question, regardless of the lack of electronic driver aids.

Long answer.

A little background, I am an instructor with the Audi Car Club of North America and call the Chicagoland Chapter my home. As an instructor, we take students out on area tracks and teach them high performance driving. We provide classroom instruction, a slalom exercise, a threshold braking exercise, and a lane toss exercise. Then we take the student out on the track and teach them how to deal with the car at speed.

My Audi does have ESP, which in the case of Audi uses a yaw sensor to determine the movements of the car, compares that to the steering input, and if they are not in line, the system will apply the brakes on the corner of the car necessary to bring the 2 lines back together. If is amazing in the snow and the rain. If the Mazda5 had such an option, I would have purchased it without question. It can do amazing things, and it is a nice safety net. But I am of the thought that a properly trained driver can do a lot.

Traction control is usually only in play at low speeds, IE when you floor it from a stop sign and the wheels spin. Many systems are not involved in a high speed emergency lane change or anything so I am not worried about that. Would I like traction control? Not really. I would like a proper differential on the front axle, but hey, it isn't necessary. If I induce wheel spin, I just lift a hair until traction is regained and that is that. Would it be nice in the snow? Sure, but I have found a set of snow tires makes a far bigger improvement, and it works in all aspects, driving, stopping, turning, etc. Buy snow tires if you live in a snowy area, and this applies to all cars. But that isn't the point here.

So comparing the high speed maneuvering abilities of a Mazda5 and a Honda Odyssey. Disclaimer: I have not had a pucker moment in the Mazda5. I have in other cars, but not the Mazda5. I am ok with that. I have tossed the Mazda around the occasional Chicago pothole at 40-50 mph without drama. I also have never driven a Honda Odyssey. That being said, I still feel confident saying the Mazda5 will win hands down.

First off, the Mazda5 is over 1,000 lbs lighter (3400 vs 4500). I also have a 1985 VW Jetta, and that car is ~2,300lbs. Trust me, you can feel the weight difference. The difference in weight is insane when you talk about handling, braking, and acceleration. Less weight means less work for the engine on acceleration, so you don't need as much HP. Less weight means less work for the brakes, which convert energy to heat and will have a limit. Less weight means less work for the tires, as they are the only things touching the ground. When you slam on the brakes at speed, you are putting a LOT of weight on the front tires. Then you try to steer, and the tires just can't do it. This holds true for all cars. Tires can't do multiple things at once very well. And the more weight you put on the tires, the less likely they are to do what they are asked. So the weight of the Mazda5 will inherently make it a better handling car. Don't get me wrong, engineers do amazing things in suspension tuning to make a big car feel nimble, but you can't engineer around physics.

Second, the size of the Mazda5 compared to the Odyssey is significant. Obviously that is the reason the people get the Honda over the Mazda. But that very size is going to be a liability when you need to toss the car around the debris that just fell off the truck in front of you at 70 mph. The size combined with the weight will, again, in my humble opinion, give the Mazda5 the edge.

Third, suspension tuning. As I said, I have not driven a Honda Odyssey, but EVERYONE I have ever met that has one loves it. So I am sure it is good. But I am confident in saying the Mazda5 drives like a car. It drives NOTHING like a Toyota Sienna, a vehicle I have put a few miles on in the past. So if the Honda is anything like the Toyota, I feel comfortable saying the Mazda5 suspension tuning is more agile and performance oriented when compared to a full size minivan. This again will give the edge to the Mazda5. The lower profile tires on the Mazda5 also help.

So handling wise, I am confident the Mazda will out handle the Odyssey in nearly all situations.

I also thing that every driver on the road would benefit from driver training, like at a driving school put on by the Audi Club, Skip Barber, etc. The driver is the best place to start when it comes to improving a car. All the modifications in the world can not make a poor driver good. But a good driver can make a poor car perform. The average driver has never done FULL threshold braking intentionally. They haven't learned how to best avoid an accident like in the lane toss. They haven't felt the weight transfer as they move the car through a slalom course. And knowing how the car is going to feel and how to control it will make all the difference, regardless of the car.

Other issues with the car? None. It has been great. I would still like 35mpg, but that isn't happening in this market segment, so I am ok. We have had no problems to note, and I actually still enjoy driving it.

For those who didn't read this post, we decided a while ago that the Mazda5 was the perfect car for our family. We live in the city of chicago, and thus a small car was a big need. We had a 2002 Toyota Camry and while nice, it was a problem with 2 car seats and a friend: we had to squeeze someone in between the car seats, which is not really comfortable by any means or we had to take 2 cars. Not great, especially in the city. So our needs were small car, seating for 6 albeit only short term, and decent gas mileage. And Rebecca wanted it in blue.

The only cars that really fit the niche in the US market were the Mazda5 and the Kia Rondo. Honestly, we didn't drive the Kia. I decided I didn't want a Kia. I know that their quality has improved and everything, but I wasn't ready for that. Not to mention the Rondo is not that attractive. Not that we are so vain, but I wasn't feeling the Kia.

So onto the Mazda5. We test drove a 2007 and decided we would wait for the 2008s with the new transmission being the primary thing. We told our dealer we wanted a Stormy Blue Touring with the homelink/dimming mirror, the cargo cover, the all season mats, and the rear bumper cover. Sure I could have perhaps got those on my own for cheaper, it wasn't much cheaper if at all and it wasn't worth the hassle.

On January 16th, we picked up our car. We loaded up the car seats and went back to living our normal life.

Fast forward a few months to today.... There are a lot of things we really like. The Mazda5 handles like a car, especially compared to the full size minivan crowd. But it feels much sportier than our Camry did too, which I much prefer. Mind you, my 2 other cars are both modified and have stiffer suspensions and I am an instructor for the Audi Car Club, so I know the difference between 'sports car' and 'touring car', but I can honestly say the Mazda5 is not a slouch. While I haven't taken it to the track or autox'ed the car (yet?), I have found that sudden steering inputs like that pop up pothole are actually doable and not scary. Much better than the Camry. WAY better than the Toyota Sienna we rented over the holidays. There have been some complaints that it is a bit firm, but it is by no means offensive. But those complaints come from the crowd coming from the Camry or the Buick scene. You'll know in a 10 min ride if you can't handle it.

The space is great for us. The Mazda5 is smaller than the Camry was, so city driving is great. We fit in places the Camry wouldn't, and we feel more nimble doing so. The interior space is great for our family of 4. We can load up the kids, all their associated gear, and go on our way. We haven't really filled the back yet. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a cave back there, but it is fine for our needs and the wagon form factor allows up to stack up if needed. We have used the 3rd row more than a few times, and while putting 2 adults back there is a bit of a challenge with the 2 car seats in place, it is doable and my in-laws have both ridden back there without complaint. We wouldn't want to put them back there and start a 500 mile road trip, but a jaunt around town is fine, and that is exactly what we wanted. There are also reports in the press that the front seat space is though on taller people, but I haven't found it to be a problem. I am 6-1 and I haven't had a problem with the seating position.

Surprises... The sliding doors. They are VERY nice with the kids. We have a 1 car garage, which is marginally larger than the car. Having the sliders allows us to load the kids in the car in the garage without a problem. We don't worry about how close the idiot parked next to us got. They are great. The taillights... I am all for technology, and I am really happy with the light output of the LEDs. Nice and bright. And they look pretty good too. I am still surprised at how it is actually fun to drive in the handling department. I was told by Rebecca that I was not to do any suspension mods, so I'll have to be happy with the stock setup, and I am ok with it.

Minor dislikes... I would like a little better gas mileage. I haven't actually calculated our real life mileage yet, so I am going off the EPA MPG rating, but I would always like to see a car in the 30s over the high 20s. So that complaint isn't really based on ownership per se. Sound level in the car is a tiny bit nosier than I would like on the highway. It isn't intrusive, but it is present, which is surprising given the low cd of the Mazda5 (0.29). It could be the tires. I can tell the engine isn't as refined as that of my Audi, not that I am surprised, I am in a different price point, but it is still something I notice. It isn't super fast, but it is more than adequate for driving with the kids. I leave the aggressive driving for life sans kids anyway, so it is not a problem. We can merge without issue and cruise at traffic +10mph without issue.

Major dislike: I had to get the grand touring to get HIDs. Grr. Bluetooth would have been nice too, but not a major point. But heated seats would have been nice. Being a vegetarian, I refuse to get a leather interior, so that ruled out the Grand Touring package. But heated seats and xenons would have been very nice touches.

I would like to see map lights for the 2nd row. I would like to see a pocket on the back of the driver seat. I would like to see a floor mat retainer clip on the passenger floor mat to match the driver side. Having the sunroof go INTO the roof vs. over it would have been nice, but I imagine that is a concession to head room, of which there is a lot and I would be hard pressed to give that up. Again, HIDs as a standalone option would be nice. The center console seems inefficienetly designed, but I have no idea what is in there, so maybe it isn't. The door cards have no storage, which is odd, but again, I don't know what is in there, but I would think that the window motor isn't that large. Factory tint on the rear would be nice (I'll add that soon as summer sets in). But those are all minor things that are not a big deal and shouldn't preclude anyone from considering this car.

So overall... in the few months we have really gotten to know the car and I still enjoy it. It looks great. It performs great. It is a great size for us. I am very happy with the purchase and I have no regrets. Would a turbo MazdaSpeed5 be better? Sure. Would I have bought one for an extra $7,000 or so? Would have been a hard sell, especially with the MPG hit I am sure we would have endured. I already have a turbo car, I don't need one for the family hauler.

The Mazda5 is a great car in a great size for a great price. It should be considered for any family of 3-4 that thinks they need more space but doesn't want the size of an SUV or a minivan.

It is annoying though. I cleaned the glass up and put the camry in the garage. I'll run to the glass store tomorrow and see if I can't get a piece cheap and swap it in. Annoying, but such is life in the city I guess.

*update* ... new glass is $80 from pilsen auto glass, so I will pick that up tomorrow AM and swap the glass and be done.

The camry has been a great car overall. Although it is a bit wide and long, it has nice space in the back seat for the kids and their car seats. It has a nice sized trunk. While I think it is nearly mind numbing to drive, the ride is smooth, gas mileage is great (especially on the highway), and there is enough power to get around. Handling is crap, although it is a bit better since I replaced the stock Bridgestone Potenza RE92s with General UHPs. It would be nice to have an aux in on the stereo for the iPods, but whatever. The problem the camry has is that if we want to go out with 1 other person, we have to take 2 cars, and that is annoying. The 2 car seats in the back take up the entire backseat. The camry otherwise has the space we need to get around and really has been a great car. Aside from oil changes and the like, we have done nothing. And aside from petty vandalism (rock thrown at the car, odd dent on the trunk that appeared, and the keying of the passenger side) it is in amazing shape.

The Mazda5 is a car that has low sales, gets poor reviews because journalists can't put it in a box, and is pretty much the perfect car for us. Although common in both europe and japan amongst others, the concept of a mini-minivan, or MPV, is not popular here. The Mazda5 is a 6 seater (although it is 7 in japan/europe) in a 2+2+2 arrangement. The 3rd row, albeit tight, can hold an adult for shorter trips. With the 3rd row up, you have virtually no trunk, but that is ok. I am not planning on bringing 6 people on a road trip, just on in town jaunts, etc. Think of it as a Mazda3 (the platform on which the Mazda5 is based and shares most components) where you can trade the trunk for 2 seats. The Mazda3 link is really the other major selling point: this is a car. It is not an SUV, or a minivan, or a hybrid. It is a station wagon with sliding doors and perhaps an identity problem. The weight is in check at 3475lbs. It is shorter then the camry by a noticeable amount, and only a bit longer than my Audi A4 wagon or my mother in laws Acura TSX. It is not lifted off the ground like an SUV. It is nimble (enough) and driving it is much more fun than the camry. Sure, it isn't an autox car, although I might give it a shot sometime.

While we decided it might be a good car for us, and we had taken an hour long testdrive, I called around and found one to rent for the weekend last friday. We picked the black touring model up from hertz friday night and put about 250-300 miles on it over the weekend. We put the car seats in, we took trips to the store with the kids, ourselves, and other adults. We made older people sit in the way back. We carried larger items that wouldn't have fit in the other cars easily along with our double stroller, gear, etc. I pushed it on the highway, I blared the stereo, I played with all the buttons, settings, etc. I put the clock in 24hour mode (yay!).

Conclusion: This is a great car for us. We don't want the SUV thing because they are absurd on so many levels, not the least of which is WE LIVE IN THE CITY. Everything around us is paved. Why give up handling and fuel economy for the visual allure of off road capability? Especially when that rarely comes with the added benefit of more interior space? It is sportier than the camry while still offering a more efficient interior layout for our needs. It can carry more with the 3rd row folded than the camry, and it can carry 4 adults as well as the 2 kids with relative ease. There is even some modding potential if I can talk rebecca into it, as the Mazda3-Mazda5 connection brings with it some aftermarket support. And, optioned out as we want it, MSRP is $22,610. The only thing we are leaving on the table is the "Grand Touring" trim, which adds leather interior, bluetooth handsfree, headed seats/mirrors, rain sensing wipers (I still don't get this, but I digress), and xenons. While I REALLY want factory xenons, and heated seats and bluetooth would be cool, I WILL NOT buy a leather interior. I ordered cloth in the Audi, and I would rather retro fit xenons as needed then have leather.

The 2008 Mazda5 gets a suite of minor upgrades, but the large plus is the addition of a 5 speed automatic replacing the 4 speed that is currently in the car, and that in and of itself is worth the wait, even though they are dealing on 2007s right now. The 2008 also gets the aux input for the iPods, which is nice too.

It also works out that the dealership my parents have bought 5 cars from in the last 10 years happens to sell Mazdas, and since my sister is replacing HER car, we have a bit of leverage for a good price. I need to get an order in for a blue one, as this will be rebecca's first NEW car for herself, and that is the color she wants. I am already thinking about snow tires, lowering springs, relay modding, rims, tint, and a few hard wiring projects for the navigation and the V1.

While I can't figure out exactly why the american population hasn't embraced this market segment, I have to remind myself that I don't understand why the average american does most of what they do, so why I would think I could understand this is beyond me. But I am glad I have the opportunity. And needless to say I'll post some pics when we take delivery.

at some point in time the car skidded/rolled on the concrete (as evident by the fenders, a pillars, etc) and she obviously nailed the passenger rear corner into the grass hard...

My hypothesis is she drifted to the center median, when the tire dropped off, it hooked, she spun around, slammed the rear passenger side into the grass median (as evident by the large amount of damage on the rear corner, and the dirt in the window track, etc), then she must have rolled or skidded or something back onto the street... Not sure. She remembers spinning around both clockwise and counter-clockwise...

But I can't tell... but overall... the passenger compartment really did quite well... the seats still all moved, the rear seats folded down, the doors opened. they didn't try to open the tailgate...

they are already working the purchase of another forester...

she is sore, bruised rib, needs some time to rest ... but she should be fine...

This AM I got up, made smoothies, fed mason, and was at work at 9.

I like eating lunch in, since I don't really care about the food options around me, and damn is it hard to eat a decent meal out that is remotely healthy. I mean, au ba pon (sp?) has low calories, but like 50% of the daily sodium. ok. Subway 6inch veggie patty is ok. The tofu teriyaki is good, but I can only eat that so much. Not to mention all of those cost $4-$6. So I have been making pb&j sandwiches and eating some fruit. I figure that is better, and infinitely cheaper, even when I am using whole wheat bread, real peanut butter (list of ingredients: peanuts. thats it.), and fruit spread (it is hard to find a jelly/jam/preserve that doesn't have corn syrup in it).

So yeah, I figure that is better than what I was eating.

Work, tonight is garage. Maybe I'll work on the car? who knows.

Turns out as I pulled up and was parking, mason was hanging out on the 3rd floor with rebecca. Mason pointed at the windows and said 'daddy'. That is awesome, my child recognizes my car by sound.

The joys of being a father.