Mazda5 at 54,000 Miles, an Update
Since the Mazda5 posts (presale, a few months in, and 7,500 miles in) seem to remain somewhat popular, I figured it is worth following up. I also recently did a decent amount of maintenance, so the car has been on my mind. So what has happened in the last ~45k miles?
Fire!
The car started on fire. Yup. A relay in the under hood box shorted/melted and started on fire. We were driving home at night and I noticed a little bit of weird electrical stuff, dash flickered, headlights flickered. I figured something was up so I pulled over and opened the hood (slowly). The influx of air caused a little flame up and we had a small fire! Small enough that I was able to blow it out, so no need to get super excited. Called for a tow to the dealer and away it went. They ended up swapping the relay box and some wiring under warranty and all was fine.
Track Days
The Mazda5 has been on the track a couple times with the Audi Car Club Chicagoland Chapter. I am an instructor, on the Board of Directors, etc and I really wanted my wife to have some experience there, so we signed up to drive, me in the Audi and Rebecca in the Mazda5. On the way TO the track, I had a center diff fail, so we both drove the Mazda5 for the weekend. There are some pics of her and me driving. It was a blast and the car was actually really impressive. Sure it was a bit slow in the instrcutor group and I did a lot of pointing, as you can see at 1:27 in this video, but it hustled around pretty well. Handling was really solid. I did have a weird thing happen where, when using the "manual shift" mode of the auto, near the end of the session the number on the dashboard would disappear. I presume this might have been heat related. I eventually just left it in D and had no issues. We came back again in 2011 and a family friend drove the car as well, so the car has a decent number of track miles on in.
Tires
As I mentioned in this post, I am a big fan of snow tires. As such the Mazda5 has summer tires on the factory wheels and snows on a set of Mazda Tribute 5 spoke 16s. The summers are currently Sumitomo HTR Z III and the snows are General Altimax Artic. Both are decent tires.
Accidents/Damage
The Mazda5 has been rear ended twice. First time by a box truck that needed about 6 more inches of room. Nothing noteworthy on the body, but scratched everything up pretty well. It spent a few days in paint and body, and we had a dent that we had created taken care of as well. Good as new. The second time a woman was stopped behind us at a light then somehow just hit the gas and drove into the bumper. More scratches on the bumper. Then she disappeared, so now we have a scratched bumper and a few broken clips, but overall nothing big. We live in the city and parking by feel is not that uncommon, so we haven't addressed it yet. We also have a small amount of hail damage from a storm that we have to get it off to the shop to get repaired and we replaced the passenger side mirror.
Roof Rack
I love Yakima roof racks. I have lots of accessories. I don't love clips. So I followed this post and used the control towers. The official word from Yakima is that the bolts are a hair too long and if over torqued, can damage the roof. I just used all the washers and don't over torque them and have had no issues. And I get to use all the Yakima stuff I already have.
Maintenance
From a maintenance point of view, we've done primarily normal stuff since purchase. Oil changes have always been Mobil1 5w20. Nothing special on filters or anything. Brakes pads have been a mix of OEM, autozone specials, and Hawk HPS. Air filters have been normal. Headlights bulbs have been replaced a couple times with what ever brand was on sale.
Last week, the thermostat stuck closed, and thankfully it had been on the 40s, but we were still blaring the heat to keep the temps in check. Since that was problematic, I ordered up a bunch of other parts to round out the following list and headed to the garage:
- Rear shocks
- Thermostat
- Air filter
- Cabin filters
- Front/Rear pads
- Oil change
- Swap summers back on
Rear Shocks
I primarily driving the car in the city at normal city speeds, so I don't often get above 40mph. I'd made a few trips from the city to the suburbs on the expressway lately and realized that the rear shocks were no longer dampening anything. I felt this was a bit premature at 54,000 miles, but not insanely out of line. I opted to go aftermarket due in part due to cost, and in part due to the fact that I wasn't terribly impressed with the factory units. I ordered up some KYB Excel-G's off Amazon as well as new upper mounts and boot kits, figuring if I was in there, might as well do it all. Between the service manual and this solid YouTube video, the job was as simple as it could get really. Just make sure you push the bump stop into the upper mount before you put it on the car. The car is much nicer to ride in now.
Thermostat
Since it stuck closed, this was somewhat forced. I was also a bit surprised to see this happen at 54,000, so I opted to also not purchase a factory part here either. Amazon again for a Stant replacement unit. The install wasn't too bad, but like all projects, would have been MUCH easier with the correct tool. Which I didn't have, but have been meaning to purchase since forever. The issue is that the hose clamps are never easy to reach and the OEM style clamp, while super easy with the right tool, is really hard without. So consider a cable operated hose clamp plier to make your life easier. Had this I remembered this, the job would have gone much faster. Money well spent, had I spent it. But I didn't, so this job took a bit longer. There are a number of forum posts that lay out the procedure, pretty straight forward. I didn't remove the belt stuff. Took a little bit of traditional tweaking to get the bubbles out and the heat working, but nothing special. Make sure you fill the radiator up at the cap as well as the expansion tank to keep the air bubbles down.
Air Filter
Once you have removed the plastic around the battery (I usually remove the negative terminal when I am poking around at an engine with a metal tool), the air filter is almost not even worth noting. 4 clamps, open, swap filter. I did a FRAM from Amazon.
Cabin Filter
I don't think I was aware the car had a cabin filter, but it was in the "other people purchased" area as I was stocking up on parts and at $15 on Amazon, I decided it was a no brainer. The procedure is laid out very well in this YouTube clip and it took no time at all. And I am glad I did it, as when I pulled out the old filter, out came a nice pile of leaves and the filters were filthy. After vacuuming the cavity out, the new filters slid in. Like all jobs, the right tools are key. The forums were full of people complaining about the 4th screw, but a stubby screwdriver makes short work of that. I used a philips on a 1/4 rachet and it was easy. I will be doing these filters more often now. I had noticed a slight groan on the HVAC fan in the past, and I was fearing the blower motor might be at fault, but seeing how dirty the filters were, I have hopes that this solves that problem.
Front/Rear Pads
I've swapped brakes a million times, so this was easy. I had some front pads with over half life left (I think they were the OEMs before I swapped to the Hawks) so I put those on the fronts. Rotors still looked good. I started on the rears, but I could not get the rear pistons to retract. The rears have to be turned to retract, and I have a tool like this one for the job, but they weren't cooperating and it was late and I was tired so opted not to fight them. It needs a bleed, but I wasn't in the mood for that either. And I am not sure my power bleeder works on the Mazda cap.
Oil Change
So oddly enough, I have done very few oil changes in my life. I find it is an annoying job that others will do for a very small amount of money. It is often times worth the $25 to not have to put the car up, dispose of the oil, deal with all messy stuff, etc. But since I was going to be under the car getting dirty anyway, I opted to do it. It was exactly what you would expect. Thankfully Autozone had 5 qt jug and filter deal for $33... so that was nice.
Conclusion
With the recent work done, the car is feeling great. I still need to do the rear pads, bleed the brakes, and have the transmission serviced, but we are still really happy. We don't love the 2012 body style (the taillights looks so sad) but we have no reason to move to a newer one anyway. I think the front suspension is next, as we have some clunking happening over bumps, but I saw nothing on a visual that was clearly the culprit. I have no reason to think we won't hit another 50k happy miles!
Snow Tires
Each time first snow arrives in Chicago, and I get into a few conversations about driving in the snow and snow tires. So lets talk about why I have them on all my cars and why you might want to consider them.
2 4 Feet On The Ground
When you are driving your car, any car, regardless of AWD or 2WD, SUV or hatchback, there are only 4 tiny spots where your car actually touches the ground: your tires. And really, that contact patch is not particularly large. These are important pieces of real estate, as they determine your ability to go, stop, and turn. So I think we can all agree tires are important.
Tires are made of rubber, and rubber has a whole bunch of variables in it, one of which is intended temperature range. Like most things on our planet, they get harder when cold, softer when warm. So tires intended for driving on the racetrack have an optimal temperature that is pretty hot. I have track tires for my Audi, and I will attest to the fact that, when they are up to temp on the track, they are super grippy. When I get lazy and drive on them when it is 40 degrees and raining, they are hockey pucks, as they are far away from their intended temperature range. Snow tires, on the flip side, are really squishy and soft when it is 80 degrees and sunny out, not to mention they wear really fast in the summer.
But you might be saying to yourself 'ummm, but I have tires on my car and I haven't ever swapped them in the past!' and I am sure that is true. You have the magical all-season tire. These tires are less 'all' season and more 'no' season. They are a compromise between everything such that they are good enough in the snow, good enough in the summer, and last decently long. They aren't awesome at anything, but they get most everything done. And they are what most people drive on all year. But those of you living in places that have snow will agree, when you are trying to get your car out of a parking spot, that they are far from amazing in the snow. Enter the snow tire. They are designed for cold weather in that their temperature range is there. They sport thread deisgnes that are deeper and designed to operate in snow. They are siped to allow for better traction on ice and slippery stuff. They are crappy in the warm air.
I Have Fancy Electronics
Now you might be thinking 'but I have ABS and ESP and traction control so I'm good'. These systems all try to do magical things to keep your car doing what you want it to do. And they really can do some amazing things. The Audi ESP system (by Bosch, also on other cars, but I have an Audi so I'll talk to that) actually has an accelerometer in it and it compares your steering input to the actual direction of the car and can selectively apply the brake on one (or more) corners of the car to bring it back inline. It can even cut the throttle if it deems necessary. It is amazing. But it isn't between your tires and the ground. It can only do so much if the tires have lost all traction and you're sliding across ice. Traction control, often times, operates under lower speed conditions and just applies the brakes on the driving wheels when you floor it and start spinning the tires. ABS just pumps the brakes to keep them from locking up when you stand on the pedal. These are all great systems, and I am glad to have them, but they can only do so much if you don't actually have any traction.
Heels In The Snow
The Tire Rack, a giant tire mailorder site, draws the analogy to footwear. If you are going to play basketball indoors on a smooth, clean, dry surface, you wear fancy gym shoes. And they are great. Then you go outside and it is cold and snowy and you find they are not as awesome. You wear boots. You wouldn't wear boots on the court either. Ask any fancy lady about wearing heels in the snow.
Now you might be saying 'ok, snowtires make sense, but I like easy and cheap. I have a feeling this is neither'. Well, you are somewhat correct. It isn't free. But awesomeness is rarely free. Lets do a little case study, as we bought my wife a 2008 Mazda5 a few years ago. We bought the car near the end of snow season, so we just drove the all season tires for the rest of the winter. Meanwhile, I started trolling craigslist for deals for my master plan. Now our Mazda5 came with 17 inch wheels. I did a little research, looking on Mazda forums, Mazda sites from other countries where they sold the same car, and I looked at the car itself and it was clear that 16 inch wheels would fit no problem. Sure, they don't look as cool as 17s, but I was ok with that. I secured a set of tires, a lightly used set that were sitting in my parent's garage, left over from a recently sold car that were a compatiable size. I only had 6 months to find a set of wheels.
For wheels, I would just monitor craigslist looking for a 16 in the correct bolt pattern, width, and offset. A few people on the mazda forums were using 16s from the Mazda Tribute, and I found a used set in the suburbs, $120 for the 4. Done. The Mazda5, like many newer cars, has tire pressure sensors on each wheel that alert the driver to a low tire. To avoid an annoying light for the entire season, I picked up a set of tire pressure monitors on ebay. I took the tires, wheels, and sensors over to a local tire shop and paid $100 to have them mounted and balanced and put on the car. The 17s with the all seasons I cleaned and put in storage in the garage. In the spring, I jack up the car and put the summers back on. Most tire shops will do this for a nominal fee. In fact, I sometimes just pay the money and save myself the labor. I do this dance twice a year, usually thanksgiving in the fall, and once it starts to stay warm in the spring. It is pretty easy.
Enough Already...
So it is obviously your call, and depends on your driving habits, needs, etc and how much snow you have to deal with, but it is really not that costly, and it might actually save you from an accident. But lets make a list just in case....
Negatives:
- A little more upfront money to acquire the wheels and tires, a little labor to mount an balance them
- Need a place to store the off season wheels
Positives:
- Better performance by using the correct tire for the conditions
- Sell them when you are done or with the car for $$
- Less death
- Much lower change of crashing or getting stuck in a parking spot etc.
- You'll feel like more of a 'car person'
Why am I so considerate or Why is everyone so selfish and self-centered?
This is a rant, and I apologize, but it irks me every single time I experience it, so time to rant!
I live in Chicago, which is a fairly dense city. But I am over 2 miles from downtown, so the tallest building around me is usually 3 stories, so the density is not that high. But with that kind of density, parking is clearly at a premium, and I understand this. I even pay for extra parking outside of the 2 spots that I have at my house and I am fine with that.
What I hate are people that double park. HATE it. I hate it when people do it on quiet little residential streets, but it isn't the end of the world, because there is room to get around and one is really not blocking the flow of traffic due largly in part to the fact that there aren't usually that many cars driving by. I hate it more when it is done on a major artery, so Ashland, a major north south street in the city that is 4 lanes plus a center lane.
The thing that often makes it more frustrating is it is almost ALWAYS done with an empty spot within a stones throw. Perhaps it is a no parking zone, or a hydrant, but it is a place you could park your car that is not impeding the flow of traffic. And really, if there is a fire, I am not sure double parking is really any better.
I can only assume that the people that do this are either too self centered to even consider parking a little further away as to not block traffic? Or perhaps, even worse, they considered it but just don't care? Let those people go around me? Or perhaps they just don't want to have to walk so far?
I mean how can one not feel like a giant asshole blocking all the traffic on a major road?
On my way to work today, which is what prompted this rant, I encountered an even more slefish situation. I am driving on a quiet residential street. I approach a stop sign, and none of the cars are moving. This is due to the fact that both other vehicles, a school bus and an SUV wanted to go east. However eastbound was blocked due to a double parked car that had managed to back up 4 other vehicles, one of which was another school bus. I, going north, thought oh, that is unforunate that one person is causing a problem for so many others and drive on.
I notice that traffic is not moving much northbound either, but due to the one way nature of the streets, north is looking better than east. I get up there and there is a couple loading a uhaul truck, of course double parked, blocking my northbound lane. On the southbound lane, there is a gentleman unloading a uhaul trailer, again double parked. These 2 geniuses managed to leave JUST enough room for 1 car to slalom between them. Meanwhile there are 4-5 cars in each direction that have essentially gridlocked themselves in due to the fact that southbound traffic is already stopped by the OTHER double parked car. Awesome.
To make this entire thing worse, there is a LOADING ZONE about 10 feet from where the uhaul truck is parked that is sitting empty. In fact people are using it to turn around.
So there are now about 15 cars all stopped, honking, with no place to go. Would you, as a perhaps NOT insanely selfish person, feel a little anxiety if it were you blocking the road? Would you perhaps feel a little emabarrased or al the very least uncomfortable? I would. I would feel really bad.
These 2 groups of people, who are evidently very important people, so much more important than the rest of us, but not so as important to be able to hire movers, have stopped unloading and loading their respective vehicles and are walking up to the cars and yelling at us.
Insane. Seriously. Insane.
2008 Mazda5 Review at 7,500 Miles: Questions Answered, Honda Odyssey vs. Mazda5
So we just rolled past 7,500 miles on our 2008 Mazda5 Touring. It goes to the dealer tomorrow for the maintenance. Just last night, my brother in law was in town and took his first ride in it and it got me thinking I should answer the few questions from the comments here and here and make another post.
If you missed the pre-purchase post or the couple month followup, check them out.
So do we still like it now that it is full of kids' toys and isn't as clean as it once was? Now that it no longer smells brand new?
Yes.
It is still the perfect car for our family of 4 in the city. One question in the comments was about life with 3 kids and some gear.... I would say it is not optimal. The 3rd row is really the trunk, you get one or the other. Sure, you can fold down one of the seats and split the difference, but really, it won't be enough. If you have a child small enough to live comfortably in the 3rd row, you are likely still carrying more gear for that child that one would like, so it becomes a space issue. With 3 kids, it could be a good second car, but as a primary car it might be tight.
That being said, I personally feel that people should purchase the smallest car they can deal with on a daily basis, and for the few road trips or big trips to home depot or what not, one should rent a car. If you are subscribing to that concept, then the Mazda5 might be a great car for a family of 5, especially if not all 5 are in the car all the time. For our family of 4, the Mazda5 could do a cross country road trip without issue. If we had 3 kids, I would just rent a minivan for the trip, put the miles on someone else's car, and not drive a giant mostly empty car for the remaining 350 days of the year, sucking down fuel and moving an extra 1,000 pounds around that you aren't using. (Assuming the Mazda5 weighs 3400, and the Honda Odyssey weights 4550).
The other question was about high speed stability and the lack of traction control/stability control. Short answer, in my humble opinion, the Mazda5 will out-handle a Honda Odyssey in high speed emergency maneuvers without question, regardless of the lack of electronic driver aids.
Long answer.
A little background, I am an instructor with the Audi Car Club of North America and call the Chicagoland Chapter my home. As an instructor, we take students out on area tracks and teach them high performance driving. We provide classroom instruction, a slalom exercise, a threshold braking exercise, and a lane toss exercise. Then we take the student out on the track and teach them how to deal with the car at speed.
My Audi does have ESP, which in the case of Audi uses a yaw sensor to determine the movements of the car, compares that to the steering input, and if they are not in line, the system will apply the brakes on the corner of the car necessary to bring the 2 lines back together. If is amazing in the snow and the rain. If the Mazda5 had such an option, I would have purchased it without question. It can do amazing things, and it is a nice safety net. But I am of the thought that a properly trained driver can do a lot.
Traction control is usually only in play at low speeds, IE when you floor it from a stop sign and the wheels spin. Many systems are not involved in a high speed emergency lane change or anything so I am not worried about that. Would I like traction control? Not really. I would like a proper differential on the front axle, but hey, it isn't necessary. If I induce wheel spin, I just lift a hair until traction is regained and that is that. Would it be nice in the snow? Sure, but I have found a set of snow tires makes a far bigger improvement, and it works in all aspects, driving, stopping, turning, etc. Buy snow tires if you live in a snowy area, and this applies to all cars. But that isn't the point here.
So comparing the high speed maneuvering abilities of a Mazda5 and a Honda Odyssey. Disclaimer: I have not had a pucker moment in the Mazda5. I have in other cars, but not the Mazda5. I am ok with that. I have tossed the Mazda around the occasional Chicago pothole at 40-50 mph without drama. I also have never driven a Honda Odyssey. That being said, I still feel confident saying the Mazda5 will win hands down.
First off, the Mazda5 is over 1,000 lbs lighter (3400 vs 4500). I also have a 1985 VW Jetta, and that car is ~2,300lbs. Trust me, you can feel the weight difference. The difference in weight is insane when you talk about handling, braking, and acceleration. Less weight means less work for the engine on acceleration, so you don't need as much HP. Less weight means less work for the brakes, which convert energy to heat and will have a limit. Less weight means less work for the tires, as they are the only things touching the ground. When you slam on the brakes at speed, you are putting a LOT of weight on the front tires. Then you try to steer, and the tires just can't do it. This holds true for all cars. Tires can't do multiple things at once very well. And the more weight you put on the tires, the less likely they are to do what they are asked. So the weight of the Mazda5 will inherently make it a better handling car. Don't get me wrong, engineers do amazing things in suspension tuning to make a big car feel nimble, but you can't engineer around physics.
Second, the size of the Mazda5 compared to the Odyssey is significant. Obviously that is the reason the people get the Honda over the Mazda. But that very size is going to be a liability when you need to toss the car around the debris that just fell off the truck in front of you at 70 mph. The size combined with the weight will, again, in my humble opinion, give the Mazda5 the edge.
Third, suspension tuning. As I said, I have not driven a Honda Odyssey, but EVERYONE I have ever met that has one loves it. So I am sure it is good. But I am confident in saying the Mazda5 drives like a car. It drives NOTHING like a Toyota Sienna, a vehicle I have put a few miles on in the past. So if the Honda is anything like the Toyota, I feel comfortable saying the Mazda5 suspension tuning is more agile and performance oriented when compared to a full size minivan. This again will give the edge to the Mazda5. The lower profile tires on the Mazda5 also help.
So handling wise, I am confident the Mazda will out handle the Odyssey in nearly all situations.
I also thing that every driver on the road would benefit from driver training, like at a driving school put on by the Audi Club, Skip Barber, etc. The driver is the best place to start when it comes to improving a car. All the modifications in the world can not make a poor driver good. But a good driver can make a poor car perform. The average driver has never done FULL threshold braking intentionally. They haven't learned how to best avoid an accident like in the lane toss. They haven't felt the weight transfer as they move the car through a slalom course. And knowing how the car is going to feel and how to control it will make all the difference, regardless of the car.
Other issues with the car? None. It has been great. I would still like 35mpg, but that isn't happening in this market segment, so I am ok. We have had no problems to note, and I actually still enjoy driving it.